Sunday, 5 December 2010

guns and politicans

I read this morning that the Police have intercepted a massive haul of illegal guns in NSW, excellent work guys.

Perhaps the most interesting things about the article is the public comment, all fairly much suggesting that the Federal Government had clearly wasted millions of tax payers dollars with the draconian gun laws which more or less simply took guns off sporting shooters and farmers and pushed up the profit margins for illegal gun runners. Just like the prohibition laws in the USA did nothing to stop booze the John Howard legacy of gun laws does nothing to stop illegal gun ownership.

Probably it has only made illegal gun traffic more attactive, looking at the prices those guns go for on the street and the prices they can be bought for in many places in the world it makes it a very attractive proposition for a criminal.

I encourage you to read some of the comments:




  • Kassim of Sydney Posted at 12:36 AM Today

    So basically all the gun ban did was cost tax payers five hundred million dollars and take away the rights of the law abiding sporting shooters?



    Comment 1 of 73






  • Mark of Newtown Posted at 12:41 AM Today

    Since criminals can still get machine guns and "assault weapons" can we have our sporting rifles back now? Why did I have to hand in my guns in 1997 if the real scum still have theirs?



    Comment 2 of 73






  • Jessica Posted at 12:51 AM Today

    Just shows how misdirected John Howard was to sool the police onto law abiding clay pigeon shooters and farmers while totally disregarding criminals, drugs and violence. What is the practical use of a white elephant gun registry that treats licensed gun owners as criminals, totally forgetting that criminals don't register their guns? What a waste of taxes. Howard's gun laws and gun buy-back didn't affect criminals. No way!



    Comment 3 of 73






  • Person sick of media bias of Brisbane Posted at 1:17 AM Today

    Now do you all see its these CRIMINALS with ILLEGAL firearms that cause the problems, NOT those of us who a LICENCED firearms owners. Gun bans do nothing other then hurt those of us who already obey the law.



    Comment 4 of 73






  • Andrew of Alyangula Posted at 1:43 AM Today

    There must be some mistake. Jackboot Johnny assured us that his proudest moment was banning all those nasty scarey guns. I guess someone forgot to tell the criminal element. Can I have my sporters back now too please?



    Comment 5 of 73






  • Frank of Gold Coast Posted at 1:50 AM Today

    None of those firearms are even legal in Australia, they were banned in 1997 by Howard since they were military style semi-automatic rifles, the types used in Port Arthur. How did these idiots get their guns if they were banned and destroyed? Looks like the gun ban didn't work.



    Comment 6 of 73






  • Dan davis Posted at 1:54 AM Today

    The best thing about this story is the expensive cost of these guns. If you buy any of these guns in America , they woul cost one tenth the price. If you ask me that is a victory against criminal firearm possession.



    Comment 7 of 73






  • Stephen Posted at 2:13 AM Today

    Good to see that the gun buy back of 1996 got all those weapons off the street. The hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars were well spent....



    Comment 8 of 73






  • Ken Vetter Posted at 2:34 AM Today

    Crims can buy very dangerous guns to rob and murder inocent Australians now The Australian government has a very real obligation responsibility and duty of care to protect the citizen that they made vunerable since 1997 How about taking responsibility for your thoughtless action Aus government



    Comment 9 of 73






  • Nick from America Posted at 3:37 AM Today

    This just goes to show what banning things does. A Glock handgun is a few hundred dollars in America. I don't even know anyone who owns a Mauser. $18,000 here would buy a machine gun, the license to own it, and a vehicle to mount it on. If you take away the ban, and allow legitimate businesses (and SOME government oversight) into the industry again, the prices would drop, gun-runners would go out of business, law-abiding citizens could have sporting and self-defense weapons in their homes again, and everyone wins.



    Comment 10 of 73






  • Les Gardner of Wollondilly Posted at 4:31 AM Today

    Good to see the police service actually engaged in stopping criminal activity. Their time is wasted on gun safe inspections of registered firerams owners - they are better off engaged in protecting the citizens of NSW by targetting criminal activity. Just goes to show Howards $500 million buyback of 1996 was wasted taxpayers money.
    Les



    Comment 11 of 73






  • terry Posted at 5:20 AM Today

    This shows the fault of gun laws in Australia ,Switzerland is a typical example ,everyone was armed by the gov ,they have very little crime and almost no gun crime at all and they have a standing army of every citizen 20 million and bunkers .



    Comment 12 of 73






  • Steve of Woy Woy Posted at 5:32 AM Today

    Your not saying Howard did it to be popular are you?... go wash your mouth out with soap he did it for the greater good.....



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  • Bill of Punchbowl Posted at 6:25 AM Today

    Go's to show that even if we ban everything these creeps will still go on doing business!
    Remember that " If you ban something you loose control of it, and you move from administration to policeing..."



    Comment 14 of 73






  • Matthew from Parramatta Posted at 6:33 AM Today

    To all the people claiming that gun laws lead to the criminals being the only ones with guns. Have you ever wondered where these "illegal" guns came from in the first place? Legal gun ownership just gives a reason for guns to exist in society in the first place. These underground guns were no doubt once owned legally by someone who for whatever reason couldn't keep them securely. The law needs to be tougher on people who possess guns without a license and it should be impossible to get a license if you don't have a real need for a gun.



    Comment 15 of 73






  • Realist of Melbourne Posted at 6:47 AM Today

    So I will be getting my guns back with an apology then ?



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  • Abdallah Faraj Posted at 6:47 AM Today

    More to the problem is how did this amount of weapons get into the country? I think that just like drugs this is only the tip of the iceberg. The real criminals are the ones who have and these guys are just the sacrificial lambs.



    Comment 17 of 73






  • Ziggy of Sydney Posted at 7:02 AM Today

    Gun crimes have skyrocketed since the stupid knee-jerk reaction to ban firearms after the Port Arthur massacre. Now only criminals have guns because they don't care about the law anyway. Honest citizens do comply with the law and since that knee-jerk banning of guns, they have absolutely nothing with which to protect themselves. For instance, very few criminals will attempt a home invasion if they know that they run the very real risk of being shot. But now, criminals are on the rampage with firearms because they know that honest people are defenceless and hence gun crime is more prevalent than ever before. How really stupid our society has become.



    Comment 18 of 73






  • wake up Posted at 7:10 AM Today

    ALL guns should be prohibited in Australia-we should be a society that does not need to use guns.



    Comment 19 of 73






  • Ed Wennink of Brisbane Posted at 7:12 AM Today

    John Howard's gun laws cost millions of dollars to implement, are still costing millions to maintain, including the registries,and are blithely ignored by criminals!
    The public are largely disarmed and helpless, while gangsters on the streets are packing submachine guns?
    We need our legal right to gun ownership restored!



    Comment 20 of 73






  • Les from Earlwood Posted at 7:14 AM Today

    Tip of the iceberg.



    Comment 21 of 73






  • John of Taralga Posted at 7:22 AM Today

    If the public were serious about helping stamp out crime in this country, there would be more information about illegal activities than the Police could handle and the courts and goals would be overflowing. While this was an eyeopener into gun running it was but a small section of what is available! So come on Joe Public. GET BEHIND YOUR POLICE!



    Comment 22 of 73






  • Mountaingoat of Warrimoo Posted at 7:27 AM Today

    Lucky they weren't speeding, they could have got into real trouble!



    Comment 23 of 73






  • Kev from the bush Posted at 7:44 AM Today

    My only hope for the older military weapons from WW2 is that they end up in the Australian War Museum for showing and not destroyed as these are part of Australia's war history.
    So much for Jackboot Johnny's $5000,000,000 gun buy back that has done nothing except victimise legal gun owners who have to bend over backwards to prove ownership and has done absolutely nothing to curb crime contrary to what the anti gun crowd keeping harping on about.I recently had my gun safe and gun inspection by the Police and they didn't even have 2 guns that I'd bought just recently on their list even though I've got the paper work from the Firearms Registry to prove it.The Policeman's reply was that the list he had was a couple of years old so that proves that the gun registry is way outdated and a waste of money.
    Canada is trying to get rid of their registry as it's been proven that it doesn't work.
    Gun crime has been on a downward slide BEFORE the 1996 stealback so it makes the lies of the anti-gun crowd even worse.



    Comment 24 of 73






  • Time to get real of NSW Posted at 7:44 AM Today

    The waste of money that is called the NSW Firearms Registry would be better spend on employing more pro-active police to hunt down the crims who deal in illigal firearms, rather than wasting it harrassing Legal firearms owners.
    I also want my sporting semi-autos back from Jackboot Johnny the lying gun thief



    Comment 25 of 73






  • Flavius Sabinus of Sydney Posted at 7:47 AM Today

    The three gun runners didn't care who was buying their lethal weapons or what they were going to do with them, just as the gun manufacturers dont care, so long as they get the money.



    Comment 26 of 73






  • Gavin of www.asho.com.au Posted at 7:49 AM Today

    Gun laws on law abiding firearms owners have no affect as is proven right here, a huge supply of illegal guns.
    When you make something illegal only the criminals have it and the criminals are the "don't cares" or "out for violence" sectors of society.
    Law Abiding Firearms Owners (LAFO's) even that balance by having the same guns when not made illegal and can even make criminals scared as all crap to pull a gun in a crime if LAFO's are licensed for cocealed carry.
    Laws have one affect and one affect only. They restrict the law abiding citizen and they give ADVANTAGE to the criminals because they are going to break the law anyway.
    Big lesson in gun control and other "controls" in Australia.



    Comment 27 of 73






  • The raccoon of Bathurts Posted at 7:56 AM Today

    Lift the gun bans or only the criminals will have guns and where does that leave us.?



    Comment 28 of 73






  • Peter Kara of Hurstville Posted at 8:04 AM Today

    You guys for real??????
    More needs to be done on the illegal market, however howards ban stopped us from turning out like america has with there guns, the weapons are not needed so get over it !



    Comment 29 of 73






  • Mr. H. of Parramatta Posted at 8:04 AM Today

    Lets All Celebrate!! Happy Go Lucky Australia!! It looks like these Gun Runners are getting these guns into Australia through the front door.



    Comment 30 of 73






  • Jack of Picnic Point Posted at 8:08 AM Today

    This shows how out of control the gun trade is in New South Wales. Gun buy backs and amnesties have done nothing. The recent drive by shootings in western Sydney prove that the criminals are running this state - not the police. This story should make people very scared - gun crime is rife.



    Comment 31 of 73






  • luke Whitington of florence, italy Posted at 8:12 AM Today

    guns shoot their owners eventually, in the foot first.



    Comment 32 of 73






  • David of Callala Bay Posted at 8:14 AM Today

    People saying only illegal guns are involved in deaths are propagating a myth. Check the statistics. Previously legal guns, stolen, are involved in murders. Also check out the change in suicide rates once a gun isn't available in the house when the depressed person gets drunk and thinks to end it all.



    Comment 33 of 73






  • Gunman Posted at 8:14 AM Today

    Less effort regulating and supervising the genuine shooter means more time and manhours can be spent on removing illegal firearms and those who sell them from the community. Four Billion and machine guns are still being sold!!! Through I was happy that the Australian public paid me two and three times the value of my handguns.



    Comment 34 of 73






  • Jason of Sydney Posted at 8:16 AM Today

    This is proof gun laws are a major FARSE!!!! I mean we have anti tank guns on the street with these illegal gun traders... and they are worried about banning pump action shot gun....
    what a joke



    Comment 35 of 73






  • The Professor of Keysborough Posted at 8:18 AM Today

    Jail is not enough for these criminals; part of the rehabilitation should be a lobotomy that wipes their hard drive and starts them on a new path upon release.



    Comment 36 of 73






  • Chris of Sydney Posted at 8:20 AM Today

    Banning guns was never a waste of taxpayers money. Only stupid people would say that it's only the illegal guns that are a danger. Might as well make heroin, ecstasy and cocaine legal. Then they won't be a danger to anyone! I'm glad we had someone like John Howard to stand up and do the right thing, even though it was terribly unpopular with the rednecks and squirrel hunters out there. We don't need guns for play and the farmers get to register theirs. No one is taking their guns away.



    Comment 37 of 73






  • Alex of QLD Posted at 8:23 AM Today

    @the above comments: there are more important things in life than guns fellas, don't get too riled up - also, the less guns circulating the better. You only have to look to the United States to see how 'guns for all' turned out; if I'm approached late at night by threatening individuals, no way do I fear of being shot - a much different reality in the US.



    Comment 38 of 73






  • eddie ross of sydney Posted at 8:29 AM Today

    Ridiculously short prison terms for these guilty gun runners. The government must introduce mandatory sentencing, five years for anybody caught with an illegal weapon.



    Comment 39 of 73






  • A cat of Not a cat Posted at 8:30 AM Today

    Guns dont kill people, people kill people.



    Comment 40 of 73






  • Gloucestre Posted at 8:32 AM Today

    Once again we see it is criminals breaking the law in regards to guns, should be obvious shouldn't it? The trouble is that the Government wants to turn law-abiding gun owners into criminals by constantly changing or 'revising' the laws which govern our sport. It has been demonstrated with real research both in Australia and overseas that gun control doesn't work, it only increases the number of criminals by trapping the law abiding by complicated and illogical laws. The only other effect of gun control is to increase the confidence of criminals who know that they are very unlikely to meet armed resistance to their crimes.
    We need to take our lead from smart countries such as Canada and NZ who have realized that registries are a failed and very expensive experiment and stop following Nanny States such as the UK as this will lead to economic and social ruin.



    Comment 41 of 73






  • Amused of NSW Posted at 8:34 AM Today

    To all those yelling about Mr Howards gun laws. Remember one thing, at the time, there were just as many murders by 'law abiding' gun owners as there was at the street level. And many of those at street level were committed using 'lawful' but stolen firearms. But I suppose you will not look past the end of your noses on this! There are laws about thousands of items but you can still get them, it is arrogant to think firearms will be any different, no matter how effective the laws are.



    Comment 42 of 73






  • harry vanSon of wagga wagga Posted at 8:36 AM Today

    Yes I want my GUNS back especially with the the amount of illegal gun use against the public. Now more than ever, while Julia lets scumbags into the country, we need to be able to defend ourselves!.



    Comment 43 of 73






  • Fed Up of NSW Posted at 8:45 AM Today

    Apparently the $500 million spent on gun buybacks, compulsory registration and law-making has worked a treat huh? What a joke our countries firearms laws are! Law-Abiding citizens can't own guns for self defense, yet these people (and many, many others) have been getting away with this for years. The Police are so tied up with doing random checks on licenced gun owners safes that they can't possibly be out catching the real crooks. It even took a tip-off for them to catch this lot....



    Comment 44 of 73






  • proud ex shooter Posted at 8:48 AM Today

    Thanks to Gun laws im sure there would be a lot more of these weapons in the hands of crims, never liked John Howard however for the safety of the community this was the best legislation he enacted.



    Comment 45 of 73






  • Ray of Sydney Posted at 8:57 AM Today

    So baddies can easily buy guns but good guys can't. C'mon. An unarmed person is a subject, an armed person is a citizen!



    Comment 46 of 73






  • Matt of richmond Posted at 8:58 AM Today

    How much proof does the public need to understand that criminals dont hand in their guns! Operations like this are the key to stopping this type of stuff. John howard should of focused on this instead of wasting millions of dollars on a buyback that didnt work.



    Comment 47 of 73






  • Leslie of the parking lot Posted at 8:59 AM Today

    Can someone please explain why farmers and sporting shooters have to jump through the hoops while crims can have what ever guns they like? No licences, no permits, no safe storage inspections, no worries.
    What a joke.



    Comment 48 of 73






  • HIM Posted at 9:00 AM Today

    "Dionys got a minimum sentence of 10 years and six months, Kafizas five years and Zarakas eight years."
    What the hell is with that?
    Gun smugglers get 10 years when drug dealers get way more.
    Yes drug dealers should be punished severaly because drugs can do serious damage to people but most of these guns are designed to do nothing except do damage to people.
    That is crazy.
    As to whinging gun owners complaining about the stricter gun laws, I loved that piece of legfislation.
    Crazy people kill people, but crazy people with guns kill lots of people.
    If a tiny minority of people not being able to sport shoot with high powered rilfes means a few less deaths I am 100% ok with that.



    Comment 49 of 73






  • walshy of nsw Posted at 9:04 AM Today

    What the, how the hell did these guns get into the country in the first place and when will the Governments stop P.R shows and actually do something real about these organised gangs and rejects instead of these P.R shows. It seems that the law abiding citizens of this country and not to mention the good people of NSW get treated worse then the criminals do, well NSW is run by criminals anyway.



    Comment 50 of 73






  • RJ of Cabramatta Posted at 9:07 AM Today

    But were they licensed firearm dealers?



    Comment 51 of 73






  • New farmer of NSW Posted at 9:18 AM Today

    We are rural on 150 acres, we need a gun for pest like foxes and to protect our animals against wild dogs. It will take us over 3 months to get this license for a gun and local farmers tell us there are rigorous laws on containing the guns and inspections, all of which you and I pay for in our taxes. When did taking responsibility for ones self and family go out the window? I see reports every day about people being stabbed to death, or hit over the head and killed by large objects, what next? Ban knives in homes? Ban large heavy items? It's all about control and our government has all of it. We need to start fighting back against the continual barrage of laws taking our rights away. We spend too much time worrying about who will win idol, and not protecting our own rights and that of our children. The biggest gun runners in this world are the U.S government. And don't forget the guns given to the U.S and our soldiers to protect the poppy fields in Afganistan so the CIA can transport back to the U.S to sell. And I have problems getting a gun to shot rabbit!



    Comment 52 of 73






  • jimmy the westy of sydneys west Posted at 9:18 AM Today

    hahaha just under the link to this page is "pistol wielding bandits rob club"
    is that a coincidence or irony?
    im just a dumb licensed gun owner hahaha
    i guess the jokes on me



    Comment 53 of 73






  • Steve R of Sydney Posted at 9:25 AM Today

    Tip of the iceberg



    Comment 54 of 73






  • Huskies Posted at 9:26 AM Today

    Another example of the fact that the gun laws give "favourable" treatment for the criminals while discriminating law-abiding citizens. The criminals have been arming themselves to the teeth while the law-abiding citizens are stripped bare. It's time for the laws to enable law-abiding citizens defend themselves against the armed criminals. Maybe the Americans are not so dumb after all despite the vilification we often hear from the media.



    Comment 55 of 73






  • Steve Posted at 9:37 AM Today

    Once again its shown that those who have no regard for the law are not ones to follow it. Licenced shooters are not allowed to own machine guns, yet we are constantly being forced to pay for the crimes commited by those who choose to have illegal firearms. Licenced shooters dont shoot people, we dont sell guns to ciminals, we dont sell guns to bikies or use them to rob banks.
    It's time to take a hard look at the sentences handed out to people caught with illegal guns, give them 10 or 15 years on the bottom, thats what a licenced shooter would get if they were to act in this manner.



    Comment 56 of 73






  • anon of Blue Mountains Posted at 9:37 AM Today

    Might be an idea to chuck out all the soft %^%^%&^ Magistrates and bring in some Hard Judges and anyone that is caught with an illegal gun gets to go to jail for every crime committed by that gun that would be a major deterent.



    Comment 57 of 73






  • handsomerob of robert,brown@bisindustrial.com Posted at 9:38 AM Today

    this is just great, as a licensed firearms owner i have to fight hard to get even the most basic of guns and all the crims need is a pocket full of cash and they can get firearms that have never ever been legal to own in australia. great effort on the gun buy back, what did that cost the australian tax payer?



    Comment 58 of 73






  • Scott of NSW Posted at 9:43 AM Today

    You've got to laugh really. Police seize 109 firearms and they're patting themselves on the back. The buyback pulled in around 650,000 guns total, but importers admit that millions of semi-auto firearms have been imported over the last 50 years. So, by my count there's still hundreds of thousands, if not millions of illegal guns out there. It shows how ridiculous our gun laws are. It's pretty simply really, criminals don't register their guns, and by banning so many types of firearms John Howard made a lot of people criminals.



    Comment 59 of 73






  • Trigger Happy for a Safer Society of Sydney Posted at 9:44 AM Today

    If you choose to live by the (illegal) Gun, then also be prepared to die by the Gun. That is, once you're caught by Law, you should then be put before a firing squad. That would send a very clear message to any potential gun slinger and runner. Granted, we don't have capital punishment in this country, but the next best thing is a minimum of 10 years in jail, without parole and without exception. But the problem is that we live in this increasingly lawless society run by the bleeding heart and profit at any cost brigades, and I can't see common sense law coming into effect anytime soon.



    Comment 60 of 73






  • THE CURIOUS OBSERVER of CHERRYBROOK Posted at 9:59 AM Today

    the one good thing Howard did was to restrict gun use....its obvious that he didnt go far enough.



    Comment 61 of 73






  • Johnno somewhere in Paradise of Qld Posted at 10:10 AM Today

    So what your saying is if you can't get a Gun licence, you can still get a gun...
    How many of these guns were destroyed in the Gun buyback..?Surely they weren't smuggled through the border.. Not with ACBPS on the job,or do they let some through for part of the proceeds...Where the hell do you get a MP5 from I thought only the Police and Military had them..surely not Corruption in the forces..
    Was any of the Glocks the ones that went missing from Bankstown Police station about 10 yrs ago?



    Comment 62 of 73






  • Kurly of Narrabeen Posted at 10:10 AM Today

    Well done to the NSW Police Force.



    Comment 63 of 73






  • John J of USA Posted at 10:11 AM Today

    as they say only the law abiding follow the law



    Comment 64 of 73






  • Jethro of Canberra Posted at 10:23 AM Today

    Onya, Johny H: I see the little .22 takedown Browning semi auto you took from me, and my father's Beretta 12-gauge pump he'd owned for forty years have been sacrifices worth making. It's been said before, laws only affect the law abiding. As for this scum, they're clearly well on the way to getting a suspended sentence, maybe even weekend detention. That'll show the bastards...



    Comment 65 of 73






  • Macquarie Jack Posted at 10:36 AM Today

    A very senior judge told me one day, "In this world, 10% of people are totally honest, and 10% of people are totally dishonest. And the other 80% of people would be dishonest if they got the chance." We simply have to accept that there will be a good proportion of people in our community who are totally dishonest. The Police are doing their best. Without them, our society would disintegrate.



    Comment 66 of 73






  • Tired Camel of Sydney Posted at 10:43 AM Today

    Always thought the gun laws were to stop another Port Arthur - criminals will always circumvent the laws, hence they're called criminals. Keep the laws in place, too many have died for that to change.



    Comment 67 of 73






  • Adel Azzar of Ashfield Posted at 10:47 AM Today

    Thanks to former premier Unsworth and all the firearm haters, the law abiding hobby shooters and hunters in this country were turned into overnight criminals. These people now have to go through countless hoops to follow their sport while filling the coffers of treasury through exhorbitant fees and to support the related bureaucracy. The end result has been that the psychos and crims can still obtain guns illegally while the majority of law abiding shooters are hit for a six! Are there more shootings now than 20 yrs ago? You bet!



    Comment 68 of 73






  • Maximus of Illawarra Posted at 10:51 AM Today

    Well done to the cops on this one. They cop a lot of flak by people for not going after real "crooks" - well looks like today they did.



    Comment 69 of 73






  • Gaston Oldigs Posted at 10:57 AM Today

    What pathetic sentences. they will probably continue running their empires from prison and be out in three years to continue hands on management. Crime really does pay, but well done the police in catching them and shame on the judicial system.



    Comment 70 of 73






  • Ron of Sydney Posted at 11:00 AM Today

    And how much tax payers money did we hand over in the gun buy back? Somewhere near $ 300m. That could have built hospitals and paid nurses what they should be paid.
    I handed back pistols and rifles, but I see that you can quite easily obtain machine guns etc if you know the right (ie bad) people.
    Its great that the Police have caught these scum bags. Now you have to continue to hunt down illegal gun traders.
    There are a lot more "Don Corleones" out there, generally riding Harley's with ridiculous insignia on their backs.



    Comment 71 of 73






  • Well_done_Guys of Sydney Posted at 11:04 AM Today

    Proud of the NWS Police Force..Hit em where it hurts the most...
    and Hit em Hard..



    Comment 72 of 73






  • dave of Sydney Posted at 11:12 AM Today

    People if your smart enough you'll realise how stupid the police force and the govt really are. Put it this way. What good is a gun law when criminals by nature don't follow law in the first place? All it does is make the law abiders more vulnerable to attack.



    Comment 73 of 73




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