Long time no post

 For various reasons I've not posted to this blog for some time, I hope to rectify that in the future.

hopefully I'll be back on track soon

Beautiful Sunsets

Winter is a beautiful time round here.

Sunrise can be nice too ...


:-)

but its not corruption

According to the Sydney Morning Herald today:

STRICT guidelines for determining when private proposals to the NSW government can bypass a competitive tender process were watered down shortly before James Packer put forward his plan for a $1 billion hotel and casino at Barangaroo.

seems to not have changed since colonial days when the wealthy made deals with government..

The change was made on August 17, a week after the Premier, Barry O'Farrell, met Mr Packer to discuss his proposal.

funny stuff if it wasn't so pathetic

Australian "business as usual"

A recent commenter over at "the conversation" wrote what I happen to think represents a pretyy good summary of Australian Big Business attitudes.

So we slap a few PV panels on our open-cut mining equipment and maybe run our coal trains on recycled chip oil ... we know what we do here ... we dig stuff up and flog it overseas. The waggons leave full and come back empty. It's what we've always done.

We strip-mine the place - top-soil, water, forests ... you name it - it's all for sale. We improve nothing, we build nothing we live on what we've found. Our commitment to being clever peaked and faded after the triumph of the Victa lawnmower and the Hills hoist.

Our addiction to the myth of endless cheap power is the only reality we know. It's lasted a century. It must be eternal. We cannot imagine any life without cars of some sort, without switches and flying in our jet-lagged kiwifruit from Italy.

So we will blanket our landscape in CSG pipes and wind turbines. We will do whatever it takes to be comfortable and have some machine do all our work for us, to keep on consuming everything and producing nothing until, like a larger version of Nauru, all the stuff we've found here has been flogged off.

You have found small to medium businesses in Tasmania willing to invest in new technology, in new power, in making stuff? Really? Here in Australia? We don't do that here mate. It's like asking locusts to leave something for their kiddies.

Not saying we can't. Just that we won't.

He made further clarification on some points here:

That living "in the bush" is not a viable alternative option. Not for everyone. Not for their entire lives. People get old and tired and need to be closer to the towns. And the actual costs of going it alone - even as a group - are prohibitive, ecologically and financially.

I have learned that many older "hippies" had set aside the permaculture adventures of their youth and were living essentially suburban lives on 1,000 hectare community titles.

That they burned just as much diesel as the local farmers and were dependent on an income from work, commuting 30ks each way (sound familiar?), that their verandahs were covered with enough lead acid batteries to sink an aircraft carrier and their fading utopia was drowning under the weight of lantana, their escaped garden plants and Bell-bird associated die-back.

The other thing - perhaps the underlying driver for a lot of this - is that while the kids and grandkids of these "hippies" often came back for visits - they all wanted to live somewhere else - in town, at jobs, and also leading very suburban lives. There was a diminished pool of fit strong labour - hence the increasing use of diesel.

But also the PV systems - which were HUGE and State of the ART - would hop the fence after 3 days of grey skies. No grid. So on goes the Genny... pop pop pop all along the valley.

Now 40 or so households all had $20,000 worth of gadetry slapped on their roof - and all up they had a total of three days worth of power. Absurd economics when you add it up.

A lot of the problem is that they half-did stuff right at the start. They paddled their own canoes. The available technology was not designed for more community-based notions of energy supply. It still isn't by and large. But also there were limits on the extent to which they would - or could - live in a "community" - they all wanted their own bush hideaway, or that's how it has ended up after 40 years.

So to summarise, the notion of going it alone is not in fact sustainable - not physically, not socially and certainly not economically. That doesn't mean we don't do things differently and better, but alternatives need to be more than just youthful adventures. Long-term, stable, as self sufficient and productive as possible, and somewhere where diesel is forever banned. Oh yes and learn to manage the bloody landscape while it's still there.

The one thing I have taken away from the bush is that small regional towns are a far more interesting prospect when it comes to building medium scale, long term alternatives. I'm still learning how to do that.

Incidentally the Carbon Price and subsequent trading system is very clever... probably too little too late for mine ... but very very much an Australian approach - not an import at all. And clever. Just not big and hard enough to effect enough change in enough time to avoid anything ... but let's see.

Well worth reading is this bit of information about bell bird dieback.

Who buys this rubbish?

Seriously?

Australia seems to be some sort of dumping ground for rubbish fashion that won't sell in asia

Bleh

Cold inside the house

One of the mysteries of life in Australia is that while its not typically cold here we tend to be cold inside our homes, despite pouring a few kilowatts of electricity into the home.

I can only assume that its a tradition we have followed from the English who also manage to make pathetic houses from the insulation perspective.

Academics ponder the issue but builders keep churning out the same designs and foolish Aussies keep buying them.

They then sit around inside complaining about how cold it is. Strange how its often actually warmer outside ...

Why don't we laugh at Australian chimney and fireplace design next

:-)

our limited scope of vision

Reading the SMH this morning and amid this blatant bit of advertising was the important quote from a Chinese steel operator:

 "If we die, you die." 

Reading the article revealed that there was not much in there about how much wealth is brought to Australia (or even how Australia really benefits long term from this), only a message how we've tied ourselves to something and how much we've over extended ourselves to get this to China.

I would like to see just how much of the money from the mining boom stays in Australia VS how much we blow in gearing up for handling the volumes. I would worry that as we all know this won't last forever what happens when it stops?

I guess we'll be left holding the debts on the infrastructure we paid for to get some of that stuff out. Of course some of that is paid for by the mines, but not all of it.

Naturally people will cry out that we need foreign investment to make the country big and strong. But do we and how much? A thought provolking article on this can be read over at Macrobusiness here.

From where I sit I only see us ruining our long term for some gain in the short term which isn't even really much gain for us. Something worth considering is the WA Gas Shortage and that during the Great Famine of Ireland Ireland remained a net food exporter.

 Meaning they had enough to feed themselves but were unable to afford it themselves.

History goes in cycles.

the disconnection from reality

This newspaper article seems to say pretty much the same thing I've been saying here.

If you live in the city and haven't ventured to the country yet, there's a one-in-five chance you never will

industry self regulation

Just like mobile phone charging scams schemes it seems that industry self regulation here is a pathetic joke when compared to (say) European regulation standards. For example the "egg industry" wishes to have a standard of free range production standard enshrined in law to allow 2 chickens per square meter and call that free range (as discussed here)

The Australian Egg Corporation, which represents most egg farmers, this week sent new draft standards to producers, which would allow a free-range egg farm to run as many as 20,000 chickens per hectare. The industry's current model code, which is not legally enforceable, allows 1500 chickens per hectare.

With a hectare being 10,000 square meters - 20,000 chickens would be 2 chickens in a square meter (so a yard by a yard more or less) repeated over quite an amount of area. So this still represents quite tight storage for chickens.

So corporate nastiness is actually equal in treating both the human population and our stock animals as just a resource to rack and pack

populate or perish: how its destroying Australia

abstract

Australia is a unique and delicate environment. This is often hidden by the harsh conditions which will kill you if you don't know what your doing. Gradually Australians have come to understand this and come to know and love their country. However this is turning around and I have seen quite significant reversals of comprehension and understanding of Australia and its environment in the last 20 years. At the same time the levels of / and nature of environmental destruction have not really abated.

The preservation of our natural beauty, our native flora and fauna and the proper management of our key natural resources (not just plain exploitation) depends not only on the government, but on the understanding of and engagement with this by the public. We are a democracy so the government is steered by the public.

In this article I try to present one aspect of the reversal of positive trends in this area and put forward what I see as being core factors.

Since settlement of this country the purpose of government here has been the exploitation of resources to make (in the first instance) a self sustaining penal colony, making a profit for England and eventually (after federation) it remained in that mode of shovel it out the door to the 'stakeholders'.

Untold areas of land were altered by land clearing, deforestation, farming, irrigation and other practices.

During the about the fifties we began a paradigm shift of mentality from Australia being "a strange place we find ourselves in" to "my homeland which I know and love". In that period a generation of people were born who's parents did not regard somewhere else as being where they come from, but that Australia was where they come from. People like Len Webb became interested in observing what we were doing wrong with the management of our land and became interested in saving it. This became known as the environmental movement.

I encourage you to take a moment to examine some of his photographic documentation works at Griffith University's collection here. It could be argued that from the early Governors of the colony of NSW sought to protect this land, but the movement to protect the environment among the people only really took hold in the generatoin born after the 50's.

Recently the movement of environmental protection has been derailed and become an agenda of social reforms and conflicting ideology which seems to fail to engage the public as once did the bid to save the Franklin River campaign. Indeed the slogan of no dams has morphed subtly to remove the idea of it being within world heritage areas in South West Tasmania.

Since the 70's and 80's the importance of the environment to Australians has passed its peak. We see now in the 21st Century that interest in Environmental issues, people are now no longer worried about the Australian environment, its degradation and losses of land.

I feel there is substantial evidence to support that part of the reason for this is that more and more the public know less and less about Australia in large part because less and less of the Australian public are from Australia.

discussion

A quick read of Australian history reveals we've changed substantially as a nation. Starting with the settlement we were at first just a colony of immigrants.

While the contribution of immigration to what represents Australian culture and our society, there comes a point where if we bring people in fast enough it creates a level of social turmoil (apart from the normal growth dynamic of any society) and "turning the cement forever will just result in stuff which will never set". In this discussion I will attempt to demonstrate that after starting out as an infant nation sometime during the building of it we have made wrong choices which I feel are detrimental to the ongoing strength of Australia.

After the cessation of Convict labour in the 1840's, our immigration levels slowed and we started to take on the character of an infant nation. People like Henry Parkes began pushing for the unification of the colonies and the formation of a nation and by 1901 we had become a federated nation and started down the path of becoming a country in our own right.

Clearly we were a migrant based nation at that time, but its important to observe that we were growing in population AND importantly growing in population of people who were born here. It is this point which I consider of greatest significance, as the longer you are here the more you are likely to feel that this place is your home and not look at it as simply a place to screw over to take your money home with you.

Some time shortly after WW2 we began a serious intake of migrants, which (perhaps) was based on the belief that we needed to have a larger work force. One of the men in government at that time was Arthur Calwell, who believed strongly in the need to increase our population. He pioneered the "Populate or Perish" theme which became embedded in the machinery immigration policy.

Poaching words from Wikipedia (because you can't be sure that doesn't change) Arthur:

... Calwell overcame resistance to mass immigration by promoting it under the slogan "populate or perish". This drew attention to the need, particularly in light of the recent war in the Pacific, to increase Australia's industrial and military capabilities through a massive increase in the population.

I'm sure he was a well meaning fellow, but I believe that the mechanisms he put in place have ultimately provided for the destruction of what is Australia and what is important to us.

There is an old adage "divide and conquer" and perhaps the surest way to divide a people is to bring in new ones all the time. I believe that the Populate or Perish policy did exactly that.

As you can see from some data the results of this policy has been the increasing decline of the population of Australians who were born in Australia with a steady stream of migrants. Looking at this ABS document we can see quickly that from about the time of Federation we became increasingly a nation of migrants ...

Fig 4.2 Australia's population born overseas(a)(b)


with (at the time of Calwell) something like 10% of Australians being born overseas. This of course means that 90% of Australians were born here.

Australia became a federated nation (not just a bunch of colonies) on the first of Jan 1901 (the first day of the twentieth century) and marked a time when Australians were wanting to become Australian. At that point in time the population was still something like 20% migrant, but it was turning around with increasingly more and more people living here who were born here.

The results of the immigration policy was to begin adding quickly to the size of the population. Which was just as it was intended. This can be seen clearly in this population graph below.



However as seen above it also returned the trend away from Australians being people who are born here to increasingly people who have moved here within their lifetime. Perhaps this is the fastest growing national population in the developed world and perhaps also the fastest changing one too.

Change is a double edged sword, as it brings both good and bad.

As a country we have very high urbanization, and interestingly it seems that the migrants who come to Australia prefer to live in the cities with "eight out of ten people born overseas lived in a capital city. Just over half were in Sydney or Melbourne"(source abs).

Which in my view can only increase the distancing of Australians from really understanding Australia. People who live in big cities (and make no mistake, cities now are quite different from cities at the beginning of the 20th Century) are more likely to have disconnected and partially formed grasps of reality.
Its not unusual for city people to

• not know where water comes from,
  
• not know where sewerage goes or how its treated
• not know where food comes from
• not understand much at all about food
• be filled with unreal contradictions For instance "I want to eat meat, but killing an animal to eat it is disgusting"
  

No wonder less and less we see anyone give a shit about the degradation of the Australian landscape and the effects of pollution. Instead everyone goes on about CO2 as if its the main issue while benzene and carcinogens are poured into the air and water.

Because increasingly they come from elsewhere, live in the big city and have no kinship with the country people don't look at the landscape and see degradation. To see that you would need to have understood what it was 15 years ago, which you can't if you don't live in the area long.

It becomes more interesting when you look at where migrants live. For example according to (slightly old) ABS data Queensland has the greatest amount of the population who were born in Australia and WA has the highest.
STATE POPULATION DISTRIBUTION - 2001


Which is interesting, as Queensland seems to be the area where people born in Australia from Sydney and Melbourne come to to retire. Often because they're sick of the rat race and in search of a nice place to live.

Australia it seems is decreasingly interested in preserving the environment or addressing issues such as the rates of land clearing. I'm certain this is linked with both urbanisation and the increasingly migrant itinerant population.

Back in the beginning of the 20th Century while many Australians lived in towns, they were smaller towns and (relatively) many more people lived in the regional areas or even had family who still did.

Now its totally different and the gap between the 'bush' and the 'city' is widening.

With changes in what is the nature of migrants (like why did they come here) altering from "a place to live" to "a place to improve our earnings" and the social background they come from (was UK and Europe is now more broadly Asia) I think its unlikely we'll ever have such a strong core of people who shared the values of those who founded the country.

I'm not sure if its possible to turn this around, but it will take years for us to get back that critical mass of people born here and who regard this as their homeland and have enough knowledge of it to know what they're talking about.

new Australian Anthem

Especially if you live in a fast developing area, you can see this more clearly

They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swingin' hot spot
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you got till it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot

They took all the trees, and put em in a tree museum
And they charged the people a dollar and a half to see them
No, no, no, don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone
They paved paradise, and put up a parkin' lot

...

I don't wanna give it
Why you wanna give it
Why you wanna givin it all away
Hey, hey, hey
Now you wanna give it
I should wanna give it
Cuz you're givin it all away, no no

the example of Adelaide

our politicians are complaining we don't listen to them when we fail to accept the message they are trying to sell.

Perhaps they should stop regarding us as kids who must eat what we're fed?

The Big Australia is an excellent bit of such garbage.

It was interesting to read that a recent study found that Adelaide was now ranked top of the most livable cities in Australia ... gosh that's a change. Perhaps quite a lot has to do with the crowding there.

Crowding is not just something which "happens" it comes from growth. Lets look at growth of the mainland state capitals since 1901



So, looking at ABS data shows the familiar kick in growth caused by changes in immigration in the 1950's and also that some time around 1970 Brisbane started to join Sydney and Melbourne in growth while Adelaide slowed in growth (resembling more the growth trends in major European cities). Brisbane was once a most livable place, but is now quite crowded and congested. Perhaps its time the Politicians started listening to us instead of saying we're not listening to them .

essential skills in short supply

In this mornings Australian, Jennifer Westacott of the Business Council of Australia argues that skills in Australia are in short supply.

I would argue that this is especially the case in the upper levels of Governance and Planning in Australia.

So unless the target of migrant intake is to get rid of politicians who sell off our assets, reduce our capacity and saddle us with ridiculous water infrastructure management (with little done about providing infrastructure itself) well I can't agree.

take for example this figure:

New job creation is running at about 30,000 a month

which is quite implausible as anyone looking for work knows. What this figure certainly included is jobs which are such as construction. This may create a job for 6 months and then it goes away.

So unless you're going to have migrants who come for 6 months and go away its blatantly false to argue this case.

she goes on to argue that

The rate of growth has fallen to 1.6 per cent, its lowest in four years.

thank God ... its been insane for years.

She momentarially pulls her head out of the sand with this:

three-pronged strategy is needed for a sustained increase in the skilled workforce: investment in education and training, commitment to a sizeable, permanent skilled migration program and greater use of temporary skilled migration visas.

which contains the single good point of investment in education and training but is likely to be subjugated to the skilled migration program and greater use of temporary skilled migration visas which will make more profit for business and leave more Australians underemployed.

She rightly points out that:

Well-managed population growth will require a commitment to effective long-term planning of our transport, energy and water infrastructure needs, fast-tracking of key infrastructure projects and policy settings that support private investment and efficient delivery of large projects.

but to date that is not what we've seen ... with the majority of spending on the infrastructure to dig it up faster and ship it out faster ... see this ABC article to support that.

A new report on infrastructure spending says investment in Queensland continues to be led by resources projects

So if you think that the multi billion dollar spending on stuff such as Allconnex has brought a single extra drop of water to your door then perhaps you'll think this is a good idea. To what I see it just appears to be good for providing more for those making money out of us and nothing better for us.

Police

The attitudes of colonialism where it was the rough wild land which needed to be tamed for the King (now Queen) are still pervasive in the Police. They still display the attitudes of bosses who enforce the will of the King rather than anyone how is protector for the people.

No better example of this can be found in the display of heartlessness and callous disregard to people in Toowoomba recently in their "freak" flood event.

I would encourage you to read the ABC news item here. Essentially the emergency phone operator berates victims of the horrific flood event and shows no compassion or displays the dispassionate non-judgmental attitudes which are needed in this circumstance.

The operator, Senior Constable Jason Wheeler in the communications centre of the Toowoomba police station, replies: "Why did you drive through floodwater?"

A distressed Ms Rice replies, "It wasn't this bad then," to which Senior Constable Wheeler replies, "Yeah, well".

Senior Constable Wheeler asks her the model of the car but her safety was not inquired after.

Well Constable Wheeler, perhaps your ill-informed opinion of the circumstances was wrong. Perhaps it was not a flooded creek which was driven though, but rather an event you could not comprehend? Perhaps you could and should be better trained to grasp that "you do not know all the facts" and "you should be professional"

Chilling and disturbing, but in light of this the police attitude is "its all ok"

But police have defended their handling of triple-0 calls made at the height of the city's flood crisis.

Sergeant Bob Coleman, who was in charge of police communications on January 10, says the switchboard was swamped with life-threatening emergency calls.

He told the inquiry he is satisfied with the way they were handled under the circumstances.

clearly there is a rotten judgmental uncaring culture which needs to be weeded out.

We are supposed to trust these people?

---

PostScriptum

reading in the SMH later today I find the following reasonable sounding defense.

QPU president Ian Leavers said chaos in the Toowoomba emergency call centre on the afternoon of January 10 highlighted the dire working conditions of regional call centre operators.
"I have repeatedly said that under-resourcing and under-staffing of the police service by government is really affecting how police can do their job," he said.
"The call centre in Brisbane is brand new, but as soon as you go past Caboolture to the north, Logan to the south, and Goodna to the west, the police call centres are third world standard.

...

Senior Constable Wheeler, who took Ms Rice's call at 1.49pm, said he had no appreciation at the time that she was in major danger.
“There was no panic or distress in her voice, no,” he said.
Senior Sergeant Wheeler said minor flooding had occurred at the same intersection in the past, and her request to him to call a tow truck did not suggest a sense of urgency.
However he said he reported himself to a welfare officer a day or two after the call, expressing concern that he did not keep his frustration in check.
“You self-evaluate, 'how can I do the job better?',” he said.

but to me the general assumption by Police remains "you're guilty and or wrong"

migration pressure - knock on effects

Australia since the creation of a colony by the English has been as a bloody great place to come over to and see what you can rip up and take away. Some people started doing this back in the earliest days of the colonial period of Australia.

Recently I wrote about the effects on population created by changes in immigration



Its interesting to see that at the same spot where the population growth started to ramp up we see another trend observed by the researchers at Australian Bureau of Statistics ... that up until the 1940's Australia was increasingly populated by people born here. Then, after that point in time, ramping up the migration rate meant that less and less people who call themselves Australian are Australian born.

ABS has a very interesting page
click to read larger version

So at the moment around one in four Australians are born here ... and looking at the modern end of that curve, the trend seems to be continuing and perhaps increasing.

Now, its interesting to note that the real growth of interest in conserving and protecting (as opposed to chopping down digging up and outright exploiting) came from about the time when most Australians were born here. Its also interesting to note that there is a decrease in interest in environmental issues, and that the environmental party (the Greens) has become subverted away from the environment and become some sort of radical urban based party.

I put forward that this is caused by the increase in immigration. We have less and less people who really understand Australia and an increase in the changes to what Australia is.

By having an increasingly itinerant population is it any wonder that noone gives a rats arse that your home is being degraded?

interesting points in the paper

two interesting points raised here:

10,000 tonnes of Australian iron ore exported five years ago could buy 280 imported dishwashers. Today it buys 1400 dishwashers. "On any measure, we are living through a boom," she says.

...

First, with Australia's terms of trade at their highest level in at least 140 years, the budget should be well in the black by now, not limping into a small surplus in two or three years.

so why aren't we? I'd put forward the staggering cost of our staggering growth as the reason.

Do you have any other to suggest?

Queensland Environment Minister

I was just watching something on the ABC and noted some quite young blond girl fronting up a policy which is supposed to make a difference in land fill amounts (no idea how, but that's another story)

It seems that the Minister is Kate Jones ... I was stunned that someone so young who sounded so inexperienced. So I looked her up. When I accessed www.qld.alp.org.au I got the following information:

• At 29 Kate is the youngest member in the Bligh Cabinet


• Before running for State Parliament, Kate was a Senior Media Advisor to the Queensland Minister for Public Works, Housing and Racing, Robert Schwarten
  
• Kate is a member of a number of local community groups, including the Ashgrove Historical Society, The Gap Community Association, Ashgrove Meals on Wheels, Enoggera Respite Centre Management Committee and environmental group Save Our Waterways Now. She is also Patron of The Gap Little Athletics and the Ashgrove Rangers


• Kate firmly believes in education for all and has a strong interest in environmental policy


• Kate is also a member of Amnesty International and The Fred Hollows Foundation and supports World Vision

So why was she chosen as our environment minister?

I don't see anything in the least which gives any indication that she has any experience or qualifications in the role.

apart from perhaps having a strong interest in environmental policy ...

?

greased palmer

I was reading today that Clive Palmer wants to bring in Chinese contract workers to fill mining roles. The Australian (which occasionally deserves the title of traitor) has used this to push the propaganda of a skills shortage:

HUNDREDS of Chinese contract workers will be brought to Queensland by mining boss Clive Palmer.

The move underlines Australia's inability to provide enough skilled labour to exploit the growing resources boom

nice supposition there folks, but perhaps it underscores how obligations can be avoided: payments to workers, superannuation, training or even just repsonsiblity

I am in little doubt that part of the problem also is that workers are using this opportunity to screw the mining companies for higher wages ... but I know from my experience when the times are not so bountiful, no matter who you are, the companies don't give a shit about you.

I'm willing to bet that the contract workers are getting paid well below what their Australian counterparts are

.

Interestginly it turns out that

Mr Palmer, the biggest political donor in Australia and an active member of Queensland's Liberal National Party

Clive goes on to mention a few things:

"the only hurdle to the project going ahead was the Queensland Labor government's approvals process.
I'm sure the Premier would want to change that. Certainly the new government, when they come in, they'll be changing that."

Well, why wouldn't you expect to get what you pay for...

So much for democracy...
It may be judging a book by its cover, but Clive, you even look like a greedy so n so

Fuel prices

I get tired of the agitation about fuel prices but with no real and open investigation into the prices. Occasionally after public agitation we hear some commission come up with there being 2c over charge or some such nonsense.

This morning on the radio there was a discussion on fuel, and it focused on the amount of profit margin that stations have. Assuming that its 8c as the RACQ suggested then thats a margin of 6 or so percent.

A popular phrase at the moment is to "talk about the elephant in the room" Well ok, lets look at that elephant.


the profit is a small part of the pie when it comes to the price we pay at the bowser, so how about we start dissecting that and request a little transparency in this process. I mean its not like fuel can be considered a luxury item anymore.

guns and politicans

I read this morning that the Police have intercepted a massive haul of illegal guns in NSW, excellent work guys.

Perhaps the most interesting things about the article is the public comment, all fairly much suggesting that the Federal Government had clearly wasted millions of tax payers dollars with the draconian gun laws which more or less simply took guns off sporting shooters and farmers and pushed up the profit margins for illegal gun runners. Just like the prohibition laws in the USA did nothing to stop booze the John Howard legacy of gun laws does nothing to stop illegal gun ownership.

Probably it has only made illegal gun traffic more attactive, looking at the prices those guns go for on the street and the prices they can be bought for in many places in the world it makes it a very attractive proposition for a criminal.

I encourage you to read some of the comments:

• 
  
  
  Kassim of Sydney Posted at 12:36 AM Today
  

  
  

  So basically all the gun ban did was cost tax payers five hundred million dollars and take away the rights of the law abiding sporting shooters?

  
  

  
  

  Comment 1 of 73

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  Mark of Newtown Posted at 12:41 AM Today
  

  
  

  Since criminals can still get machine guns and "assault weapons" can we have our sporting rifles back now? Why did I have to hand in my guns in 1997 if the real scum still have theirs?

  
  

  
  

  Comment 2 of 73

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  Jessica Posted at 12:51 AM Today
  

  
  

  Just shows how misdirected John Howard was to sool the police onto law abiding clay pigeon shooters and farmers while totally disregarding criminals, drugs and violence. What is the practical use of a white elephant gun registry that treats licensed gun owners as criminals, totally forgetting that criminals don't register their guns? What a waste of taxes. Howard's gun laws and gun buy-back didn't affect criminals. No way!

  
  

  
  

  Comment 3 of 73

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  Person sick of media bias of Brisbane Posted at 1:17 AM Today
  

  
  

  Now do you all see its these CRIMINALS with ILLEGAL firearms that cause the problems, NOT those of us who a LICENCED firearms owners. Gun bans do nothing other then hurt those of us who already obey the law.

  
  

  
  

  Comment 4 of 73

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  Andrew of Alyangula Posted at 1:43 AM Today
  

  
  

  There must be some mistake. Jackboot Johnny assured us that his proudest moment was banning all those nasty scarey guns. I guess someone forgot to tell the criminal element. Can I have my sporters back now too please?

  
  

  
  

  Comment 5 of 73

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  Frank of Gold Coast Posted at 1:50 AM Today
  

  
  

  None of those firearms are even legal in Australia, they were banned in 1997 by Howard since they were military style semi-automatic rifles, the types used in Port Arthur. How did these idiots get their guns if they were banned and destroyed? Looks like the gun ban didn't work.

  
  

  
  

  Comment 6 of 73

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  Dan davis Posted at 1:54 AM Today
  

  
  

  The best thing about this story is the expensive cost of these guns. If you buy any of these guns in America , they woul cost one tenth the price. If you ask me that is a victory against criminal firearm possession.

  
  

  
  

  Comment 7 of 73

  
  
  
  


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  Stephen Posted at 2:13 AM Today
  

  
  

  Good to see that the gun buy back of 1996 got all those weapons off the street. The hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars were well spent....

  
  

  
  

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  Ken Vetter Posted at 2:34 AM Today
  

  
  

  Crims can buy very dangerous guns to rob and murder inocent Australians now The Australian government has a very real obligation responsibility and duty of care to protect the citizen that they made vunerable since 1997 How about taking responsibility for your thoughtless action Aus government

  
  

  
  

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  Nick from America Posted at 3:37 AM Today
  

  
  

  This just goes to show what banning things does. A Glock handgun is a few hundred dollars in America. I don't even know anyone who owns a Mauser. $18,000 here would buy a machine gun, the license to own it, and a vehicle to mount it on. If you take away the ban, and allow legitimate businesses (and SOME government oversight) into the industry again, the prices would drop, gun-runners would go out of business, law-abiding citizens could have sporting and self-defense weapons in their homes again, and everyone wins.

  
  

  
  

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  Les Gardner of Wollondilly Posted at 4:31 AM Today
  

  
  

  Good to see the police service actually engaged in stopping criminal activity. Their time is wasted on gun safe inspections of registered firerams owners - they are better off engaged in protecting the citizens of NSW by targetting criminal activity. Just goes to show Howards $500 million buyback of 1996 was wasted taxpayers money.
  Les

  
  

  
  

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  terry Posted at 5:20 AM Today
  

  
  

  This shows the fault of gun laws in Australia ,Switzerland is a typical example ,everyone was armed by the gov ,they have very little crime and almost no gun crime at all and they have a standing army of every citizen 20 million and bunkers .

  
  

  
  

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  Steve of Woy Woy Posted at 5:32 AM Today
  

  
  

  Your not saying Howard did it to be popular are you?... go wash your mouth out with soap he did it for the greater good.....

  
  

  
  

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  Bill of Punchbowl Posted at 6:25 AM Today
  

  
  

  Go's to show that even if we ban everything these creeps will still go on doing business!
  Remember that " If you ban something you loose control of it, and you move from administration to policeing..."

  
  

  
  

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  Matthew from Parramatta Posted at 6:33 AM Today
  

  
  

  To all the people claiming that gun laws lead to the criminals being the only ones with guns. Have you ever wondered where these "illegal" guns came from in the first place? Legal gun ownership just gives a reason for guns to exist in society in the first place. These underground guns were no doubt once owned legally by someone who for whatever reason couldn't keep them securely. The law needs to be tougher on people who possess guns without a license and it should be impossible to get a license if you don't have a real need for a gun.

  
  

  
  

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  Realist of Melbourne Posted at 6:47 AM Today
  

  
  

  So I will be getting my guns back with an apology then ?

  
  

  
  

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  Abdallah Faraj Posted at 6:47 AM Today
  

  
  

  More to the problem is how did this amount of weapons get into the country? I think that just like drugs this is only the tip of the iceberg. The real criminals are the ones who have and these guys are just the sacrificial lambs.

  
  

  
  

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  Ziggy of Sydney Posted at 7:02 AM Today
  

  
  

  Gun crimes have skyrocketed since the stupid knee-jerk reaction to ban firearms after the Port Arthur massacre. Now only criminals have guns because they don't care about the law anyway. Honest citizens do comply with the law and since that knee-jerk banning of guns, they have absolutely nothing with which to protect themselves. For instance, very few criminals will attempt a home invasion if they know that they run the very real risk of being shot. But now, criminals are on the rampage with firearms because they know that honest people are defenceless and hence gun crime is more prevalent than ever before. How really stupid our society has become.

  
  

  
  

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  wake up Posted at 7:10 AM Today
  

  
  

  ALL guns should be prohibited in Australia-we should be a society that does not need to use guns.

  
  

  
  

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  Ed Wennink of Brisbane Posted at 7:12 AM Today
  

  
  

  John Howard's gun laws cost millions of dollars to implement, are still costing millions to maintain, including the registries,and are blithely ignored by criminals!
  The public are largely disarmed and helpless, while gangsters on the streets are packing submachine guns?
  We need our legal right to gun ownership restored!

  
  

  
  

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  Les from Earlwood Posted at 7:14 AM Today
  

  
  

  Tip of the iceberg.

  
  

  
  

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  John of Taralga Posted at 7:22 AM Today
  

  
  

  If the public were serious about helping stamp out crime in this country, there would be more information about illegal activities than the Police could handle and the courts and goals would be overflowing. While this was an eyeopener into gun running it was but a small section of what is available! So come on Joe Public. GET BEHIND YOUR POLICE!

  
  

  
  

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  Mountaingoat of Warrimoo Posted at 7:27 AM Today
  

  
  

  Lucky they weren't speeding, they could have got into real trouble!

  
  

  
  

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  Kev from the bush Posted at 7:44 AM Today
  

  
  

  My only hope for the older military weapons from WW2 is that they end up in the Australian War Museum for showing and not destroyed as these are part of Australia's war history.
  So much for Jackboot Johnny's $5000,000,000 gun buy back that has done nothing except victimise legal gun owners who have to bend over backwards to prove ownership and has done absolutely nothing to curb crime contrary to what the anti gun crowd keeping harping on about.I recently had my gun safe and gun inspection by the Police and they didn't even have 2 guns that I'd bought just recently on their list even though I've got the paper work from the Firearms Registry to prove it.The Policeman's reply was that the list he had was a couple of years old so that proves that the gun registry is way outdated and a waste of money.
  Canada is trying to get rid of their registry as it's been proven that it doesn't work.
  Gun crime has been on a downward slide BEFORE the 1996 stealback so it makes the lies of the anti-gun crowd even worse.

  
  

  
  

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  Time to get real of NSW Posted at 7:44 AM Today
  

  
  

  The waste of money that is called the NSW Firearms Registry would be better spend on employing more pro-active police to hunt down the crims who deal in illigal firearms, rather than wasting it harrassing Legal firearms owners.
  I also want my sporting semi-autos back from Jackboot Johnny the lying gun thief

  
  

  
  

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  Flavius Sabinus of Sydney Posted at 7:47 AM Today
  

  
  

  The three gun runners didn't care who was buying their lethal weapons or what they were going to do with them, just as the gun manufacturers dont care, so long as they get the money.

  
  

  
  

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  Gavin of www.asho.com.au Posted at 7:49 AM Today
  

  
  

  Gun laws on law abiding firearms owners have no affect as is proven right here, a huge supply of illegal guns.
  When you make something illegal only the criminals have it and the criminals are the "don't cares" or "out for violence" sectors of society.
  Law Abiding Firearms Owners (LAFO's) even that balance by having the same guns when not made illegal and can even make criminals scared as all crap to pull a gun in a crime if LAFO's are licensed for cocealed carry.
  Laws have one affect and one affect only. They restrict the law abiding citizen and they give ADVANTAGE to the criminals because they are going to break the law anyway.
  Big lesson in gun control and other "controls" in Australia.

  
  

  
  

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  The raccoon of Bathurts Posted at 7:56 AM Today
  

  
  

  Lift the gun bans or only the criminals will have guns and where does that leave us.?

  
  

  
  

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  Peter Kara of Hurstville Posted at 8:04 AM Today
  

  
  

  You guys for real??????
  More needs to be done on the illegal market, however howards ban stopped us from turning out like america has with there guns, the weapons are not needed so get over it !

  
  

  
  

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  Mr. H. of Parramatta Posted at 8:04 AM Today
  

  
  

  Lets All Celebrate!! Happy Go Lucky Australia!! It looks like these Gun Runners are getting these guns into Australia through the front door.

  
  

  
  

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  Jack of Picnic Point Posted at 8:08 AM Today
  

  
  

  This shows how out of control the gun trade is in New South Wales. Gun buy backs and amnesties have done nothing. The recent drive by shootings in western Sydney prove that the criminals are running this state - not the police. This story should make people very scared - gun crime is rife.

  
  

  
  

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  luke Whitington of florence, italy Posted at 8:12 AM Today
  

  
  

  guns shoot their owners eventually, in the foot first.

  
  

  
  

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  David of Callala Bay Posted at 8:14 AM Today
  

  
  

  People saying only illegal guns are involved in deaths are propagating a myth. Check the statistics. Previously legal guns, stolen, are involved in murders. Also check out the change in suicide rates once a gun isn't available in the house when the depressed person gets drunk and thinks to end it all.

  
  

  
  

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  Gunman Posted at 8:14 AM Today
  

  
  

  Less effort regulating and supervising the genuine shooter means more time and manhours can be spent on removing illegal firearms and those who sell them from the community. Four Billion and machine guns are still being sold!!! Through I was happy that the Australian public paid me two and three times the value of my handguns.

  
  

  
  

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  Jason of Sydney Posted at 8:16 AM Today
  

  
  

  This is proof gun laws are a major FARSE!!!! I mean we have anti tank guns on the street with these illegal gun traders... and they are worried about banning pump action shot gun....
  what a joke

  
  

  
  

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  The Professor of Keysborough Posted at 8:18 AM Today
  

  
  

  Jail is not enough for these criminals; part of the rehabilitation should be a lobotomy that wipes their hard drive and starts them on a new path upon release.

  
  

  
  

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  Chris of Sydney Posted at 8:20 AM Today
  

  
  

  Banning guns was never a waste of taxpayers money. Only stupid people would say that it's only the illegal guns that are a danger. Might as well make heroin, ecstasy and cocaine legal. Then they won't be a danger to anyone! I'm glad we had someone like John Howard to stand up and do the right thing, even though it was terribly unpopular with the rednecks and squirrel hunters out there. We don't need guns for play and the farmers get to register theirs. No one is taking their guns away.

  
  

  
  

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  Alex of QLD Posted at 8:23 AM Today
  

  
  

  @the above comments: there are more important things in life than guns fellas, don't get too riled up - also, the less guns circulating the better. You only have to look to the United States to see how 'guns for all' turned out; if I'm approached late at night by threatening individuals, no way do I fear of being shot - a much different reality in the US.

  
  

  
  

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  eddie ross of sydney Posted at 8:29 AM Today
  

  
  

  Ridiculously short prison terms for these guilty gun runners. The government must introduce mandatory sentencing, five years for anybody caught with an illegal weapon.

  
  

  
  

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  A cat of Not a cat Posted at 8:30 AM Today
  

  
  

  Guns dont kill people, people kill people.
  

  
  

  
  

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  Gloucestre Posted at 8:32 AM Today
  

  
  

  Once again we see it is criminals breaking the law in regards to guns, should be obvious shouldn't it? The trouble is that the Government wants to turn law-abiding gun owners into criminals by constantly changing or 'revising' the laws which govern our sport. It has been demonstrated with real research both in Australia and overseas that gun control doesn't work, it only increases the number of criminals by trapping the law abiding by complicated and illogical laws. The only other effect of gun control is to increase the confidence of criminals who know that they are very unlikely to meet armed resistance to their crimes.
  We need to take our lead from smart countries such as Canada and NZ who have realized that registries are a failed and very expensive experiment and stop following Nanny States such as the UK as this will lead to economic and social ruin.

  
  

  
  

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  Amused of NSW Posted at 8:34 AM Today
  

  
  

  To all those yelling about Mr Howards gun laws. Remember one thing, at the time, there were just as many murders by 'law abiding' gun owners as there was at the street level. And many of those at street level were committed using 'lawful' but stolen firearms. But I suppose you will not look past the end of your noses on this! There are laws about thousands of items but you can still get them, it is arrogant to think firearms will be any different, no matter how effective the laws are.

  
  

  
  

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  harry vanSon of wagga wagga Posted at 8:36 AM Today
  

  
  

  Yes I want my GUNS back especially with the the amount of illegal gun use against the public. Now more than ever, while Julia lets scumbags into the country, we need to be able to defend ourselves!.

  
  

  
  

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  Fed Up of NSW Posted at 8:45 AM Today
  

  
  

  Apparently the $500 million spent on gun buybacks, compulsory registration and law-making has worked a treat huh? What a joke our countries firearms laws are! Law-Abiding citizens can't own guns for self defense, yet these people (and many, many others) have been getting away with this for years. The Police are so tied up with doing random checks on licenced gun owners safes that they can't possibly be out catching the real crooks. It even took a tip-off for them to catch this lot....

  
  

  
  

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  proud ex shooter Posted at 8:48 AM Today
  

  
  

  Thanks to Gun laws im sure there would be a lot more of these weapons in the hands of crims, never liked John Howard however for the safety of the community this was the best legislation he enacted.

  
  

  
  

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  Ray of Sydney Posted at 8:57 AM Today
  

  
  

  So baddies can easily buy guns but good guys can't. C'mon. An unarmed person is a subject, an armed person is a citizen!

  
  

  
  

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  Matt of richmond Posted at 8:58 AM Today
  

  
  

  How much proof does the public need to understand that criminals dont hand in their guns! Operations like this are the key to stopping this type of stuff. John howard should of focused on this instead of wasting millions of dollars on a buyback that didnt work.

  
  

  
  

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  Leslie of the parking lot Posted at 8:59 AM Today
  

  
  

  Can someone please explain why farmers and sporting shooters have to jump through the hoops while crims can have what ever guns they like? No licences, no permits, no safe storage inspections, no worries.
  What a joke.

  
  

  
  

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  HIM Posted at 9:00 AM Today
  

  
  

  "Dionys got a minimum sentence of 10 years and six months, Kafizas five years and Zarakas eight years."
  What the hell is with that?
  Gun smugglers get 10 years when drug dealers get way more.
  Yes drug dealers should be punished severaly because drugs can do serious damage to people but most of these guns are designed to do nothing except do damage to people.
  That is crazy.
  As to whinging gun owners complaining about the stricter gun laws, I loved that piece of legfislation.
  Crazy people kill people, but crazy people with guns kill lots of people.
  If a tiny minority of people not being able to sport shoot with high powered rilfes means a few less deaths I am 100% ok with that.

  
  

  
  

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  walshy of nsw Posted at 9:04 AM Today
  

  
  

  What the, how the hell did these guns get into the country in the first place and when will the Governments stop P.R shows and actually do something real about these organised gangs and rejects instead of these P.R shows. It seems that the law abiding citizens of this country and not to mention the good people of NSW get treated worse then the criminals do, well NSW is run by criminals anyway.

  
  

  
  

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  RJ of Cabramatta Posted at 9:07 AM Today
  

  
  

  But were they licensed firearm dealers?

  
  

  
  

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  New farmer of NSW Posted at 9:18 AM Today
  

  
  

  We are rural on 150 acres, we need a gun for pest like foxes and to protect our animals against wild dogs. It will take us over 3 months to get this license for a gun and local farmers tell us there are rigorous laws on containing the guns and inspections, all of which you and I pay for in our taxes. When did taking responsibility for ones self and family go out the window? I see reports every day about people being stabbed to death, or hit over the head and killed by large objects, what next? Ban knives in homes? Ban large heavy items? It's all about control and our government has all of it. We need to start fighting back against the continual barrage of laws taking our rights away. We spend too much time worrying about who will win idol, and not protecting our own rights and that of our children. The biggest gun runners in this world are the U.S government. And don't forget the guns given to the U.S and our soldiers to protect the poppy fields in Afganistan so the CIA can transport back to the U.S to sell. And I have problems getting a gun to shot rabbit!

  
  

  
  

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  jimmy the westy of sydneys west Posted at 9:18 AM Today
  

  
  

  hahaha just under the link to this page is "pistol wielding bandits rob club"
  is that a coincidence or irony?
  im just a dumb licensed gun owner hahaha
  i guess the jokes on me

  
  

  
  

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  Steve R of Sydney Posted at 9:25 AM Today
  

  
  

  Tip of the iceberg

  
  

  
  

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  Huskies Posted at 9:26 AM Today
  

  
  

  Another example of the fact that the gun laws give "favourable" treatment for the criminals while discriminating law-abiding citizens. The criminals have been arming themselves to the teeth while the law-abiding citizens are stripped bare. It's time for the laws to enable law-abiding citizens defend themselves against the armed criminals. Maybe the Americans are not so dumb after all despite the vilification we often hear from the media.

  
  

  
  

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  Steve Posted at 9:37 AM Today
  

  
  

  Once again its shown that those who have no regard for the law are not ones to follow it. Licenced shooters are not allowed to own machine guns, yet we are constantly being forced to pay for the crimes commited by those who choose to have illegal firearms. Licenced shooters dont shoot people, we dont sell guns to ciminals, we dont sell guns to bikies or use them to rob banks.
  It's time to take a hard look at the sentences handed out to people caught with illegal guns, give them 10 or 15 years on the bottom, thats what a licenced shooter would get if they were to act in this manner.

  
  

  
  

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  anon of Blue Mountains Posted at 9:37 AM Today
  

  
  

  Might be an idea to chuck out all the soft %^%^%&^ Magistrates and bring in some Hard Judges and anyone that is caught with an illegal gun gets to go to jail for every crime committed by that gun that would be a major deterent.

  
  

  
  

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  handsomerob of robert,brown@bisindustrial.com Posted at 9:38 AM Today
  

  
  

  this is just great, as a licensed firearms owner i have to fight hard to get even the most basic of guns and all the crims need is a pocket full of cash and they can get firearms that have never ever been legal to own in australia. great effort on the gun buy back, what did that cost the australian tax payer?

  
  

  
  

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  Scott of NSW Posted at 9:43 AM Today
  

  
  

  You've got to laugh really. Police seize 109 firearms and they're patting themselves on the back. The buyback pulled in around 650,000 guns total, but importers admit that millions of semi-auto firearms have been imported over the last 50 years. So, by my count there's still hundreds of thousands, if not millions of illegal guns out there. It shows how ridiculous our gun laws are. It's pretty simply really, criminals don't register their guns, and by banning so many types of firearms John Howard made a lot of people criminals.

  
  

  
  

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  Trigger Happy for a Safer Society of Sydney Posted at 9:44 AM Today
  

  
  

  If you choose to live by the (illegal) Gun, then also be prepared to die by the Gun. That is, once you're caught by Law, you should then be put before a firing squad. That would send a very clear message to any potential gun slinger and runner. Granted, we don't have capital punishment in this country, but the next best thing is a minimum of 10 years in jail, without parole and without exception. But the problem is that we live in this increasingly lawless society run by the bleeding heart and profit at any cost brigades, and I can't see common sense law coming into effect anytime soon.

  
  

  
  

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  THE CURIOUS OBSERVER of CHERRYBROOK Posted at 9:59 AM Today
  

  
  

  the one good thing Howard did was to restrict gun use....its obvious that he didnt go far enough.

  
  

  
  

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  Johnno somewhere in Paradise of Qld Posted at 10:10 AM Today
  

  
  

  So what your saying is if you can't get a Gun licence, you can still get a gun...
  How many of these guns were destroyed in the Gun buyback..?Surely they weren't smuggled through the border.. Not with ACBPS on the job,or do they let some through for part of the proceeds...Where the hell do you get a MP5 from I thought only the Police and Military had them..surely not Corruption in the forces..
  Was any of the Glocks the ones that went missing from Bankstown Police station about 10 yrs ago?

  
  

  
  

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  Kurly of Narrabeen Posted at 10:10 AM Today
  

  
  

  Well done to the NSW Police Force.

  
  

  
  

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  John J of USA Posted at 10:11 AM Today
  

  
  

  as they say only the law abiding follow the law

  
  

  
  

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  Jethro of Canberra Posted at 10:23 AM Today
  

  
  

  Onya, Johny H: I see the little .22 takedown Browning semi auto you took from me, and my father's Beretta 12-gauge pump he'd owned for forty years have been sacrifices worth making. It's been said before, laws only affect the law abiding. As for this scum, they're clearly well on the way to getting a suspended sentence, maybe even weekend detention. That'll show the bastards...

  
  

  
  

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  Macquarie Jack Posted at 10:36 AM Today
  

  
  

  A very senior judge told me one day, "In this world, 10% of people are totally honest, and 10% of people are totally dishonest. And the other 80% of people would be dishonest if they got the chance." We simply have to accept that there will be a good proportion of people in our community who are totally dishonest. The Police are doing their best. Without them, our society would disintegrate.

  
  

  
  

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  Tired Camel of Sydney Posted at 10:43 AM Today
  

  
  

  Always thought the gun laws were to stop another Port Arthur - criminals will always circumvent the laws, hence they're called criminals. Keep the laws in place, too many have died for that to change.

  
  

  
  

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  Adel Azzar of Ashfield Posted at 10:47 AM Today
  

  
  

  Thanks to former premier Unsworth and all the firearm haters, the law abiding hobby shooters and hunters in this country were turned into overnight criminals. These people now have to go through countless hoops to follow their sport while filling the coffers of treasury through exhorbitant fees and to support the related bureaucracy. The end result has been that the psychos and crims can still obtain guns illegally while the majority of law abiding shooters are hit for a six! Are there more shootings now than 20 yrs ago? You bet!

  
  

  
  

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  Maximus of Illawarra Posted at 10:51 AM Today
  

  
  

  Well done to the cops on this one. They cop a lot of flak by people for not going after real "crooks" - well looks like today they did.

  
  

  
  

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  Gaston Oldigs Posted at 10:57 AM Today
  

  
  

  What pathetic sentences. they will probably continue running their empires from prison and be out in three years to continue hands on management. Crime really does pay, but well done the police in catching them and shame on the judicial system.

  
  

  
  

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  Ron of Sydney Posted at 11:00 AM Today
  

  
  

  And how much tax payers money did we hand over in the gun buy back? Somewhere near $ 300m. That could have built hospitals and paid nurses what they should be paid.
  I handed back pistols and rifles, but I see that you can quite easily obtain machine guns etc if you know the right (ie bad) people.
  Its great that the Police have caught these scum bags. Now you have to continue to hunt down illegal gun traders.
  There are a lot more "Don Corleones" out there, generally riding Harley's with ridiculous insignia on their backs.
  

  
  

  
  

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  Well_done_Guys of Sydney Posted at 11:04 AM Today
  

  
  

  Proud of the NWS Police Force..Hit em where it hurts the most...
  and Hit em Hard..

  
  

  
  

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  dave of Sydney Posted at 11:12 AM Today
  

  
  

  People if your smart enough you'll realise how stupid the police force and the govt really are. Put it this way. What good is a gun law when criminals by nature don't follow law in the first place? All it does is make the law abiders more vulnerable to attack.

  
  

  
  

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